TSG’s Jay Bell and I started riffing on email and Jay suggested that we take our talents to TSG for a PTI-esque discussion on US-Panama fallout and more. So here you have it.
German engineering has not been precise for the Yanks so far in the Gold Cup.
Jay, TSG: What is the biggest concern coming out of the Panama match? I’ll take “what is wrong with Jermaine Jones?” for $200.
The US CM position is often bandied about as the deepest position ever in the history of the USMNT. So why is it getting overrun at times? Neither Bradley nor Jones was good against Panama, but it is becoming alarming that Jones cannot impose himself on CONCACAF opponents.
By his pedigree, he should be dominating the center of park throughout the Gold Cup. Instead, against Panama, he looked uncomposed, indecisive and tactically ignorant. Just wrap your head around the fact that Sacha Kljestan came into the match and put Jones’ performance to shame. Not an insult to Kljestan, but a player with Jones’ club career should be embarrassed about that and throwing a tantrum after his substitution will not help matters.
Matthew, TSG: C’mon Jay, are you serious!
Take a look at the game, around the 30th minute or so, Clint Dempsey drop back and receives a pass….and he’s waiting…he’s waiting…he’s waiting. You see anybody move? I didn’t. Agudelo in the 35th minutes and 45 minutes was working his socks off looking for an opening and I counted at least four Yanks around him both times, flat-footed. Waiting, presumably reacting.
If it’s not in transition, the Yanks have a real hard time in the offense end. Lack of idea and stagnation. Jermaine Jones?! Jermaine Jones has been battling niggling injuries and went from Schalke 04 destroyer to Blackburn complement. Are we seeing less than we expected with him right now? I’m not so sure. Kljestan came in to a whole different game!
The future, but what about the present?
Here’s one for you. US fans clamor for a new centerback pairing and they got it. What does Bob Bradley do now with every CONCACAF team seeing–again–a big hole of inexperience at left centerback in the Yanks line-up ?
Here’s what I say–you can’t go back to Gooch and there’s no evidence that a player like Omar Gonzalez would have done any better–If you’re Bradley, I think you have to ride it out and make sure the players ahead of them buy into shutting down passing lanes and service.
That’s where the Yanks struggled Saturday night. In protecting a vulnerability that it knew it had. No?
Jay, TSG: At least in hindsight, you can question going with Ream in a match where the opposing attackers are so physical and athletic. Onyewu or Bocanegra may have been a better complement to Goodson in that match, who himself was not as responsible for the first goal as comments during the game would have led you to believe. He still did not have a good night, but he was not mainly responsible for a goal as his younger partner was.
Bob does have to stick with the players he has and give them experience so they learn and get better. I do not understand being so anxious and willing to blood more and more young, inexperienced players. If players who are experienced internationally and in Europe are having trouble, there is no reason to believe that younger less experienced options will fare much better. If anything, Ream showed exactly why enthusiasm about younger players has to be tempered.
If Bob stays on, he will definitely give ample opportunities to players like Omar Gonzalez, George John and probably even Chad Marshall to show that they can be better options.
Any CB pairing the US trotted out last night was going to be stretched since the US midfield was not slowing the Panamanian attack. Bradley still has a tendency to run at the man instead of covering passing lanes and was passed around for much of the night. Jones was worse. The inability to get the ball from the defense to the forwards effectively and pressure the ball in the midfield stranded the US centerbacks.
Will Edu stick his leg in there against Guadeloupe?
Will Bob go with the same pair again or turn to Edu or Kljestan?
Matthew, TSG: Jay, interesting question on Edu or Kljestan.
At this point, I’m going to say no and a lot of that has to do with the job that Michael Bradley is doing.
Jermaine Jones has proven capable of tacking fiercely–if sometimes in violation–in this Gold Cup. The Yanks need his bite in the center of the pitch.
Scratch that paragraph. Watched the replay last evening. First, it’s possible that Tim Howard might have a coronary if Jones plays again–I can’t risk an injury to Howard. Jones missed many times at shutting down service–that and apathetic approach on offense necessitates a change.
I think you’ll see Bradley use Edu as a starter here–remember he was a World Cup starter against Algeria–a team that plays somewhat similarly to Guadeloupe.
Here’s a final one: What to do about the strikers? Juan Agudelo and Jozy Altidore have looked positively redundant together–with Agudelo not providing the speed to stretch the defense that Altidore benefits from.
It seems to me that Bob Bradley can either migrate to a 4-2-3-1 or push Clint Dempsey up top (a poor decision in you don’t want him taking a beating all game long.) What’s the call?
Jay Bell, TSG: Ah, the problematic position. What to do, what to do. Tough decision for Bob because, unlike other positions, there does not seem to be a right answer.
Not quite there...
Agudelo has looked dangerous at times, but his three best USMNT performances to date have come as a substitute. After three forgettable performances as a starter against Paraguay, Canada and Panama, maybe he should be looked at as a spark off the bench again. If he comes on as a substitute, should Wondo even be an option on the bench? It will be sad if his miss against Panama is his lasting international moment.
I say start Altidore and I bet Bradley is thinking the same thing. Altidore always has the potential for a big moment (should have had an assist to Wondolowski) and earns plenty of fouls in dangerous positions.
The key is what to do with Dempsey. Sure, his creativity is needed in the midfield, but would the US be so desperate for that creativity if he was up top as a potent finisher? Will Bob leave him out wide or use him top? Will Kljestan or Bedoya start, and, if they do, will it be out wide or centrally?
I think Bob’s tendency will be to go with Dempsey up top and dropping further back than Altidore forming a variation of a 4-4-1-1. I don’t like Kljestan out wide, but that is where he was against Canada. Kljestan or Bedoya will likely start on the wing opposite of Donovan.
One last thing, why take Adu to the Gold Cup if he is not an option for a match like Panama? That game was screaming out for a playmaker and would have been perfect for the 2008 Freddy Adu. With Agudelo starting on the bench, I think Adu or Rogers takes Wondolowski’s place on the bench. If Jones does not make the bench because of his tantrum after being substituted, both could make the bench and be called on late in the match.
Matt, TSG: Couldn’t agree more on Adu and Panama. On Dempsey, I think you have to at least start him in the midfield. Two reasons: 1, You don’t want him taking a beating all game long from centerbacks and 2, just like at Fulham I think he finds the game better when he’s got more of a free role and the best position that lends to Dempsey floating is somewhere in the midfield, maybe even a CAM, though not in the traditional sense.
We’re out for now.
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Posted by Christian Araos on 2011/06/13 at 9:07 AM
If sacha can hold his own in midfield why not a 4-3-3 with him bradley and edu/jones and upfront you have ld and dempsey either side of jozy…provides width up front has all three midfielders in different roles and allows for both ld and deuce to cut inside with their runs which they like to do
Posted by Nick on 2011/06/13 at 9:15 AM
I had the same thought about Adu in the Panama match…I didn’t mind the subs that Bradley brought on as all were positive, but I couldn’t help but think that we needed Freddy Adu to help unlock that bunkered defense. Though that would be dependent on Freddy Adu playing, as you pointed out, like 2008 Adu.
Posted by dth on 2011/06/13 at 4:34 PM
I don’t think Adu would’ve worked in the center–a few hip checks from those physical Panamians and he’s out of the game.
Adu is so skilled, but tactically below average and athletically worse. Probably the athleticism deficit that does him in.
Posted by EFG on 2011/06/13 at 9:21 AM
I can’t imagine Jones will be left off the gameday roster because of his tantrum. Was it uncalled for? Yeah, probably but was it refreshing to see someone besides Howard show their frustration? Yes.
Thoughts on Bocanegra replacing Ream in the middle and having Lichaj/Bornstein out left? I’d put the percentage of that happening at about 98%.
Posted by Antonio H. on 2011/06/13 at 9:44 AM
I’ll disagree with you on this. I don’t see why bob would change the CB pairing…especially against Guadelupe. And if Ream and Goodson are our CB’s of the future, how else are they going to develop chemistry.
Dolo-Goodson-Ream-Boca
Posted by EFG on 2011/06/13 at 9:51 AM
Instead of preparing for the future, Bradley had better focus on the present and what gives him the best chance to win tomorrow. If, God forbid, the US fails to advance to the quarterfinals, I fully expect Bradley to be fired Ancelotti-style in the tunnel at Livestrong Park. Call that “harsh” if you like, and while I’ve never been in the “Bradley’s got to go camp” this failure surely sends him packing.
Posted by Antonio H. on 2011/06/13 at 11:10 AM
No matter who we had in the back, It’d be difficult for even Ricardo Clark, let alone the whole team, to cough one up against Guadelupe. I think we’ll see Lichaj in this one as well along with Goodson and Ream. If the opponent was more challenging, I’d say your argument would be pretty unbeatable.
Posted by Bob on 2011/06/13 at 9:24 AM
Great analysis! Thanks guys!
Posted by matthewsf on 2011/06/13 at 9:26 AM
Actually, you could see with the 18 selection that Bradley thought Bradley was confident.
No Bornstein–in my opinion–he must be injured, because the US need a lefty with speed in the back left.
No Rogers for width, but both Edu and Kljestan…and Bedoya (not a 23 selection) make the cut.
Just some odd stuff.
I’m not a Rogers fan, but if you say you’re going to take him for width and then you he’s not in consideration.
The only other — way out there–thing I can think of is that Bradley was going to play a lot of 4-2-3-1 this tourney. Nearly everything hints at it. Eddie Gaven’s supposed selection. Only 3 forwards. Four defensive minded midfielders, none of whom play small ball.
Anywho…
Posted by EFG on 2011/06/13 at 9:42 AM
So, no Bornstein but possibly Lichaj? Something’s gotta change for tomorrow.
Posted by matthewsf on 2011/06/13 at 9:45 AM
Working on preview. I think Edu starts for sure, beyond that not sure.
Posted by Alex on 2011/06/13 at 9:59 AM
Why the Edu call? Just wondering. He has looked off the past few times I have seen him in the shirt, but maybe because he has been playing all over the field, and his substitute performance against Canada was just underwhelming.
I am hoping for a Formation change if anything.
Posted by Alex on 2011/06/13 at 9:57 AM
I agree, Matt. The pre-tournament squad selections (lack of Fs, high on central MFs) pointed towards a 4-2-3-1 or even a 4-3-3, but Bob has reverted, maybe out of fear, maybe out of habit, to a 4-4-2/4-2-2-2. I would hope we see some changes for the Guadeloupe game, because this squad needs some shaking up.
Posted by Nick on 2011/06/13 at 10:11 AM
Anyone else find it odd that the Gold Cup is the only international tournament where you have a 23-man roster but still have a gameday squad of 18?
Without this limitation Bob wouldn’t have to game plan as much for the opponent and have more options off the bench for the different game situations that may present themselves. However, without this limitation we may not get to see Bob’s inadequacies as a game planning, tournament manager.
Posted by Alex on 2011/06/13 at 9:29 AM
Man, I hate Kornheiser.
…that is all.
Posted by Marmaduke on 2011/06/13 at 9:30 AM
Matt, go back to the Canada game if you still have it and count turnovers vs completed passes for Jones in the first half. I don’t have a tape, but — at the time — it felt like 10 to 1.
I’ve been a proponent of giving him time to adjust to his new teammates, and (given his club history) I don’t think BB made a bad decision in going with Jones for these two games. But I think with thee performances, the depth at CM, his age, and the tantrum, it’s time to give someone else a run.
Posted by daniel on 2011/06/13 at 10:09 AM
Jermaine Jones said something revealing in a recent USSF video about boot ‘n run vs possession. He also kind of admits to being lazy…
“[...] right now to more to play have the ball and try to play. The last years? With other coach was play more English kick and rush and more about the fitness. Now with the new coach, what he want to try, I like it, I find it good…”
Posted by daniel on 2011/06/13 at 10:10 AM
(starts at 2:11). elsewhere in the video he also talks about how tired he gets before 90 mins is up.
Posted by Colin on 2011/06/13 at 10:20 AM
I think he’s just trying to say that he prefers a possession style of play and that the speed of play and intensity of the english game was difficult for him to adjust to when he arrived.
I don’t know that it’s really admitting that he is lazy tho.
Posted by daniel on 2011/06/13 at 10:22 AM
i know. just a slight tinge of an implication. anyway i know what he was talking about, and it’s relevant because it may explain why he’s not performing well in the bradley system — one that he admittedly prefers not to play.
Posted by Colin on 2011/06/13 at 10:48 AM
I dont think the Sam Allardyce system is the same as a Bob Bradley system though
Posted by Colin on 2011/06/13 at 10:50 AM
at least not a Bob Bradley Gold Cup system…where the US is the favored team and should be capable of maintaining possession
Posted by chazcar2 on 2011/06/13 at 11:24 AM
I would try a 4-3-3 something like below:
Altidore—Agudelo—Donavon
——-Dempsey——–
—Bradley—Kljestan—
Boca–Ream–Goodson–Dolo
Option: Bedoya for Altidore or Edu for Agudelo to make it into a 4-2-3-1
Posted by chazcar2 on 2011/06/13 at 11:31 AM
Not that I have faith that this would work, just something I would like to see.
Posted by Eric on 2011/06/13 at 11:29 AM
On who doesn’t make the 18…
As mentioned above Bornstein, Spector, Rogers, Adu weren’t on the bench last match.
Adu: To me Bradley is not going to play Adu in meaningful minutes anytime soon (if ever) in the Gold Cup. BB trusts Kljestan over Adu if push came to shove. Adu would have gotten time in next match if it didn’t mean anything. Not in the 18 this time.
Spector: Lichaj evaluated higher. BB hasn’t shown he would risk Spector in midfield. Spector watches in street clothes.
Rogers: May dress. Like Adu BB wanted to “coach” him along in camp to get him there. I hope the coaching staff is regretting that choice. They might realize that if events go as planned, they can give him some garbage minutes if we are ahead, or to provide some width. Guess that Rogers makes the 18 (for this one match) and Bedoya does not.
Bornstein: Interesting. Last match Lichaj was basically the only fullback sub. Is he 2nd in-line for LB as well as RB? Or is it just trust in Boca and the need to have more midfield subs available? Gut feeling is that Bornstein is under-performing in camp and BB is not impressed with his form in camp or with his club. I think Bornstein still sits (unless he starts*). Personally I think I would rather have Onyewu not dress. Boca is first cover for CB, but not how the coaching staff sees it.
I do not see BB having Wondolowski on the bench. Too few forwards.
Not in the 18 = Bornstein, Spector, Bedoya, Adu ?
Posted by Eric on 2011/06/13 at 11:35 AM
LB situation:
Last match was the contingency at LB (for the match) = Boca>Lichaj>Ream ?
Obviously with only being able to dress 18, coaches had to make tough decisions but they seemed pretty confident in Boca being the best option hands down. Will that change? How is Bornstein doing?
Posted by Eric on 2011/06/13 at 11:40 AM
Should Ream and Boca have switched late last match?
The tactical decisions late in the match were understandable. When Goodson came out would it have made more sense to put Ream at LB to provide service, width and balance to our aggressive attack? Boca it seemed would have better held down the fort at CB.
This is by no means a permanent fix idea but in that desperate situation when the other team is not threatening that much, could the switch have helped?
Posted by Gabe on 2011/06/13 at 12:14 PM
Can we please see Freddy Adu? The lack of scoring/creative threats on the US team as a whole is minimal at best.
Posted by SpumantiJones on 2011/06/13 at 2:14 PM
Poor outing from the team, top to bottom. Mentally, we looked like finishing off Panama was a given prior to earning a rest, but lacked the motivation to do so until we were down by 2. Physically, the US appeared leg dead for much of the first half — perhaps a hangover from playing on that sod-over-astroturf pitch in Detroit. All-in-all despite being poor on the evening, we still produced sooo many chances to finish this one off and just couldn’t convert.
Don’t believe it’s constructive to bash our guys. Surprising venom for JJones, even here from Jay Bell. Pissed about losing is precisely the emotion we want from our team, not sure it was a ‘tantrum’! Explain why someone showing passion is a bad thing? JJ had a decent outing but was frustrated out there, partly due to: 1) the harsh yellow card (he still played tough yet in control as to avoid a 2d yellow); 2) the fact that he needed to cover so much ground for MB who was very out of sorts throughout the first 45 mins; and 3) distributing to an at times static and erratic group of players ahead of him. JJ, MB need more time together to work it out; they are a good pairing.
Let’s not overlook the fact that Panama beat us at our own game. High pressure, quick counter attacks, physical play and locking down the defensive 1/3.
Like it or not, the squad is experiencing growing pains. We must evolve quickly to advance in this tournament, we did that in Confed Cup, we’ll do it again here in GC.
Posted by Jake C. on 2011/06/13 at 3:50 PM
Both of you make good observations. The one thing I’d point out, Matt, is how those two defensive midfielders hurt the offensive flow of the game for the US (someone mentioned this in a response to Neil’s column I think). Running a 4-2-2-2 is fine if you’ve got stellar CDMs (e.g. Busquets and Alonso), but if they’re busy running around like blind bats (Jones) then there’s not much linkup play with the advanced mids and the forwards. If you get bossed in the midfield to the extent that we did that night, then it’s going to have an impact on the offense as well. You rightly pointed out that Panama had the US gameplan figured out–the veterans should have stepped up at that point, to be sure, but any success at that point would have occurred despite the game plan.
Posted by FulhamPete on 2011/06/13 at 4:18 PM
How about an extremely offensive 4-3-3?
I think what A&A need is someone who they can play off of, like Deuce in a retreated F role.
Altidore–Agudelo
—-Dempsey——-
LD–MB90–Bedoya
Lichaj-Boca-Goodson-Dolo
Posted by Andrew on 2011/06/14 at 10:18 AM
First of all, I like Michael Bradley, but don’t understand the love affair from fans. He is good defensively but his passing, to be honest, sucks. We need a CDM that can counter and distribute, not just break up opposing team plays. We don’t have that. Plus the BBs rules of not playing for your club team apparently doesn’t apply to his son. It would have been interesting to see who he would have sat if Holden was healthy.
Obviously though are big problems are defensively and up front. I for one would like to see Wynne on defense. His speed is truly amazing and know that he is playing CB, he should have been called up, because the way Mexico is playing, we are going to get destroyed with their passing and speed.
So, WTF, since the midfield is our strongest position, I would try putting Donovan and Demps up top in their old forward positions against Guadelupe. Edu and Sacha both got some Champions League experience this past year, and Spector (former striker when he was younger) looked really good in the midfield in the EPL this year.
Dempsey — Donovan
Adu
Spector Sacha
Edu
Lichaj — Boca — (Goodson / Gooch) — Dolo
HOWARD
OR
Dempsey — Donovan
Spector Sacha
(JJ or MB) — Edu
Lichaj — Boca — (Goodson / Gooch) — Dolo
HOWARD