Turkey vs. USA: The Stands Are Alive

Torres had a great game and was everywhere. Ball control was superb and his tackling was also very good.

The USMNT played much better the second half. They played more cohesive football and taking Spector off was huge. Torres also showed more ball skill then Clark I feel. They key for me though was Findley, who certainly played himself into the starting 11 while showing strength, touch and a fine eye for the game. Altidore got the goal, but Findley was the better player for me. Bornstein played himself out of anything.

Deuce got himself a nice individual goal and the US set themselves up with some chances they should have scored.

A much better performance then against the Czech and kudos to Turkey for coming out and playing hard. Next up for the USMNT an actual WC opponent. Australia!


90:00 – US win a corner as the US have had much better possession and ball control the second half. Their defense was improved but they still gave up way to much off the ball and Bornstein was just awful. He really needs to regroup as he is better then this. As I write this he is turned around yet again as he over commits and another great cross is sent in. Luckily for the US no one from Turkey is there to meet it.

87:00 – Bradley shows his attacking prowess as Holden sends a great ball for Bradley to latch onto. Instead of shooting though he pulls it back for Dempsey who shots narrowly wide. Deuce should have done better but nice build up from the USMNT.

86:00 – Over 55k at the game. Great showing US fans. Fantastic send off.

84:00 – Off a free kick Howard pushes it over the bar. Corner for Turkey but the training ground plan does not go off for the Turks.

Holden on Altidore off.

79:00 – Bornstein is being abused as ball goes one way, forward the other and Bornstein just stops and lets the Turk send in an easy cross. Luckily for the US no one in a red shirt was in the 6 yard box.

77:00 – Bornstein immediately shows how useless he is and gets easily turned around. Ball lands at Tuncay’s feet and Dolo does well to block him out.

76:00 – GOOOOOAAAAL – Dempsey. The Fulham player is passed to and the ball takes a lucky bounce off him, but Deuce latches onto it well and slots it under the keeper. A nice strikers goal. US 2 – Turkey 1

75:00 – Bocanegra off and Bornstein on…shudder here at TSG studios

73:00 – US playing better defense but still not challenging the Turkish attackers. That said they are playing good TEAM defense. Donovan wins the ball but handles it in the process. Free kick goes wide.

70:00 – Findley certainly playing for a starting spot. I know Jozy has the goal but Findley has been much more impressive.

65:00 – Torres shows his skill as he calmly brings the ball out of the defense as Emre gets crowded out of the ball. US playing much better.

62:00 – US defense still letting Turkey come up field and Turan gets a cross in and Tuncay sets up a shot from Emre but Gooch comes barreling in and blocks with his body. Good final defending by the US but the Turks should never get that opportunity.

59:00 – GOOOOALLL Altidore, but it was all in the buildup as Findley sends in a lovely chip to Donovan who goes around the keeper and sends it in to Altidore who has an open net to shoot into. All Findley and Donovan there as they combine speed and touch to perfection. US 1 – Turkey 1

57:00 – Dolo is playing very well and as far as i’m concerned has sent Spector to the bench for the WC. Donovan screams down the wing and pulls back for Dempsey but its well cut out by the Turkish defense

54:00 – US win two successive corners that are taken by Donovan and are both dangerous but Turkey clear and immediately attack. Findley then gets the ball and shoots wide. He has been pretty good so far.

51:00 – Findley makes a great defensive play as no one else decides they want to challenge Tuncay as he maraudes up field. US definitely playing with more intent and are moving the ball a lot better. Maybe at the risk of their defensive duties?

48:00 – Findley getting into a good position and sends in a cross that is well saved by the Turkish keeper.

47:00 – Excellent build up play by the US to start of the half. Donovan tee’s up Bradley but Ceten throws his body in the way and blocks well. Nice by everyone.

Altidore playing better as the game goes on. Another great photo by Matt Mathai

TWEEET and they’re off.

Gooch for Goodson, Dolo for Spector (thank god), Torres for Clark and Findley for Feilhaber? Formation change? or more like Dempsey coming back into midfield. I like it.

PEEEP – Halftime. What sort of changes do we see from Senior? I say take off Spector and put in Dolo but keep everything else as is until 60 and then switch out the strikers. I think i need a drink!

45:00 – For some reason the US defense does not want to challenge players. They let Tuncay run at them as he passes to Kazim who shoots directly at Howard. This sort of defending puts a lot of unnecessary  pressure on the keeper.

43:00 – Great stuff by Altidore who shows some skill and intent as he goes at the Turkish defenders and shows wonderful touch as he passes around Ceten. He then controls it and sends in a lovely cross just beyond the outstretched leg of Dempsey. Close for the US and by far their best move of the day.

41:00 – Again Turkey attack through Tuncay who passes by defenders like they are not there. His shot though is deflected by a sliding interception by Goodson and goes out for a corner which after a few back and forth’s is caught and cleared by Howard.

38:00 – US attack through some nice inter change of passing but when Turkey clear they are abused by the Turkish wingers. Luckily DeMerit is awake and stifles Kazim Richards. Great defense by the Watford man. Seconds later Spector again gets beaten down the wing but no one from Turkey is there to meet the ball for an open goal.

36:00 – Clark and Bradley are doing a good job winning the ball and driving the engine forward but are not getting help form the other midfielders.

32:00 – US regrouping and slowly but precisely move the ball up the field; Feilhaber gets the ball out wide and sends in a great cross that is headed out for a corner. Donovan takes it and Bradley has a free header which he misses. Ball pings around and Turkey frantically clear.

29:00 – Spector is playing in his preferred role and that was bad. Dolo should be starting on June 12th.

27:00 – GOOOOAL – TURAN . Spector came forward with ball but held onto it for too long and got caught in possession right outside the Turkish penalty box. He was then woefully out of position. Turkey held it up for awhile but Spector was slow in getting back and the pass went beyond him and all Turan had to do was waltz into the penalty area and shoot past Howard. Turkey 1 – US 0

26:00 – Altidore is getting into good space.

23:00 – Dempsey gets fouled by Brinci about 35 yards out. Donovan standing over it but its is acrobatically cleared for a corner.

21:00 – Bradley sends a great ball to Altidore down the wing and controls it well. He holds it up and crosses it Dempsey but its his turn to have poor ball control and Turkey clear.

19:00 – US not playing to their best of their abilities. They are playing a little disjointed. The crowd though sounds amazing and are really into it. Great atmosphere in Philly.

15:00 – Spector just got skinned from a great pass by Tuncay as Inan latches onto it as he skipped past the confused West Ham man but his shot goes wide. Should have done better. Turkey attack again but Clark clears it well.

13:00 – Harkesy? Ok what ever John. US have their best spell of the match so far as they pass the ball around. It finally comes to Dempsey’s feet but his shot is woeful.

11:00 – Tuncay sends a lovely back heel to Bayern winger Altintop. The defenders just play off versus challenging him and he gets a free but soft shot that just goes wide of Howards goal. The Everton keeper is furious at his back four.

9:00 – Turkey enjoying a good spell of possession as they pass around the US team but the US playing good bend don’t break defense and Bocanegra clears the danger with a header.

6:00 – What a miss by Tuncay as Turkey carve through a disorganized US defense and he has an open shot that he sends wide. Should have done better. US lucky there.

5:00 – Turkey came to play and already showing more skill then the Czech’s. Some slick passing creates a gap for the Turkish left winger to exploit but Howard is up to the task and claims well.

3:00 – Great pass by Feilhaber…to a Turkish winger as he tried to pass across goal. That’s a defending 101 no no. Luckily they escape with a corner but nothing comes of it.

1:00 – Sloppy play from the Turkish defenders as Dempsey takes a shot right after he fouled Altintop. Positive start by the US.

0:00 – US to kick it off…TWEEEEET. Game on

Are the kids usually there during the handshake line up? Its incredibly awkward as they have to duck and you can’t really shake hands properly as you might a kid in the face…US federation needs to reconsider this


Hmmmmm Howard…those are some serious veins popping there!


In random somewhat related news, Eto’o is threatening to quit Cameroon due to criticism from legend Roger Milla. Rather Harsh from the old lion, saying that Eto’o has done a lot from the his club but nothing from his country. I thought the English press was bad.


I must admit I tend to agree with what the pundits are saying, even Lalas in his pompous round about way of saying things. Will be curious to see what kind of changes sweatpants makes for the second half. I do agree that they should try and keep the defensive unit playing together as much as possible


A strong lineup being sent out for the first half of this game. I suspect that this will be fairly close to what you see on June 12th. I think the pairing up top is the USMNT best attacking combo.

I must admit that up until last week I assumed Turkey was in the WC finals. They were fantastic and exciting at Euro 2008 and their club football has come a long way but they had a terrible qualifying campaign. Ideally they would be a fantastic test for the US but i fear most of them are already thinking about the beach. Still they should provide a sterner test then the Czech Republic


From Gold Cup sub to starter against the Queen? (courtesy Matt Mathai)

Shaun will be along shortly…but:

A starting line-up of:

FW: Jozy Altidore, Clint Dempsey

MID: Benny!, Mike Bradley, Ricardo Clark, Landon Donovan

DEF: Boca, DeMerit, Goodson, Spector

G: Howard


I had categorically stated that you wouldn’t see Goodson here…unless Gooch was not himself. That answers our question there.

Press officer Michael Kammarman immediately came down press row with a jovial, “there is nothing wrong with Gooch. He played 65 minutes on Tuesday and he’ll be in the 2nd half.”

Question to USSF: The Slovenia game is four days after the England game as well.

Dempsey starts up top–again, TSG, off on this one. Let’s see where Altidore and Dempsey play off another. My guess–and my foundation of thought had been rocked (half-kidding)–is that Dempsey will be on the right and Jozy the left. But we’ll find out…thanks for joining us…

184 responses to this post.

  1. Posted by Dylan on 2010/05/29 at 10:13 AM

    Should we be concerned about Gooch out of the lineup? I think so unless we see him get minutes in the second half.

    But I love that Demps is starting up top.


    • Posted by Shane_K83 on 2010/05/29 at 10:23 AM

      I’ve been concerned since last game.. Your a little late partner..lol


    • Posted by robbie on 2010/05/29 at 10:51 AM

      Gooch proved he wasn’t ready last week. Goodson starting is a bit of a downer, but I’m equally as happy that Dempsey is up top.



  2. Posted by Hercules3076 on 2010/05/29 at 10:24 AM

    Should be fun. Is this BB experimenting again? Or is the likely starting lineup versus England?


  3. Posted by Jared on 2010/05/29 at 10:24 AM

    I’m surprised by the midfield. I don’t see the width. I think the lineup is probably more likely a 4-5-1 with Dempsey and Donovan out wide or behind Altidore.

    I think Gooch is a major question mark going forward. The thing he needs most is playing time and he’s not getting it. It looks like Bradley is going to see how well Demerit works with Goodson.

    At least Bornstein isn’t starting.


  4. Man, why am I nervous? It’s not like I’m suiting up.


  5. I kind of knew how it looked with Gooch. Less than a full match and icing up the knee…not a good sign. I wonder if he will be able to go at all, or even if that’s a sensible thing to try.


  6. Posted by kaya on 2010/05/29 at 10:27 AM

    Wow. wtf? I tought we were done experimenting?


  7. Posted by kaya on 2010/05/29 at 10:30 AM

    Wahl twitter feed fw’d info that we should look for Gooch in the 2nd.
    For me the question after the CZ game was whether Gooch was making the 23, so I’m sadly not surprised to see him out of the starting lineup.


  8. Posted by Antonio H. on 2010/05/29 at 10:31 AM

    I can see where Bob is with his thinking on this one:

    If indeed I do start Clint up top with Jozy, who are my top 2 candidates for RM(here’s your answer). If Stu can’t go a full 90, then I want to know how Benny(!) does on the Right. Or, do I bring in Run-DMB around the 65 and move landon over to the right?

    Good stuff here


  9. Couldn’t we just deport Lalas? I’m tired of looking at his glaikit face.


    • Posted by ETJ on 2010/05/29 at 10:42 AM

      I just looked up “glaikit” , def my new favorite word


    • Posted by GeorgeCross on 2010/05/29 at 10:42 AM

      I am unsure who I dislike more – Alexi Lalas or Bobby McMahon or Tommy Smyth

      They all make me cringe, and they all spout a load of bollocks. I’d rather listen to somebody scratching their nails down a blackboard.


      • Posted by sfshwebb on 2010/05/29 at 10:46 AM

        Bloody onion bag…it was clever the first time…the 190,000,000 time it grates worse then fingernails on a blackboard


    • Posted by Antonio H. on 2010/05/29 at 10:46 AM

      Ok Lalas really needs to shut up


  10. Posted by Fireball on 2010/05/29 at 10:35 AM

    Would any one call this a 4-5-1 depending on how Dempsey plays?


  11. I think the selection of Gooch to the final roster was a gamble, with the manager hoping he could gain enough fitness to go. With zero matches at Milan even before he was hurt, even if Gooch can get his knee right, he’s nowhere near the match fitness required to play in these types of games.


    • I think Gooch will be back to the point where is a better alternative than Marshall would have been coming off of the bench. Gooch will be on the bench though, which is why BB decision to start Goodson today is a good one. We need to see if this back line can be cohesive and how Goodson and Demerit play together. Gooch will get some 2nd half time.
      Really who would you rather have had as another defender in the 23?


  12. I would just like to say I like this lineup. Though I think it would be better if Holden was on the right and Donovan on the left. I am excited to see how this works. I no it is experimenting but it is a better overall line-up for us and hopefully everything works out.

    Definitely will see Holden and Gooch come on at some point. Hopefully Edu comes on later as well.

    BB is a dark horse indeed. (unless of course he changes his mind away from this entirely by Australia).


    • I like seeing Dempsey in the hole, I’d rather see Holden and Donovan on the wings as mentioned. People are saying Gooch has looked good the past few days, I’m thinking (hoping?) this may be more of a rest issue than a health issue.


      • I hope so too. Gooch is vital.


        • I can see where BB comments about “resting” a few players definitely applies to Holden. I would guess that ideally BB would play Holden but that going the full 90 he is giving him the rest. Also I think you could see Gooch eventually and may be out for a rest but I would say at this point BB would tip towards Goodson and thus needs to see if that is a viable option. In the next few weeks maybe Gooch becomes the starter again. Or more likely Gooch starts soem and Goodson starts some group games depending.


  13. Posted by i like tuesday on 2010/05/29 at 10:53 AM

    Checking In the second to last row way up high behind the goal.Will have another set of tactical pics on this one. Starting 11 against England today? Met Matt out in Lot K earlier.


  14. Posted by kaya on 2010/05/29 at 10:53 AM

    Frankly the whole lot of ex-US teamers make me cringe on their analysis. Harkes, Foudy, Arena, Balboa…. they are what the mute button and univision were intended for.


  15. One reason this experiment is better than previous ones:
    it is not a wholesale change like the last game and it does not involve seeing players tried again at unlikely scenarios (i.e. JB a CB).

    In the last game I don’t fault BB for sitting out of our starters. But he didn’t have to give everyone and their mother another look-see. You can have 6 subs. You don’t need to use them all.

    I mean Kjestjan should not have gotten any more time, he should have just been in camp in the unlikely event that 3 of our CM got injured and then he would make the plane.
    EJ = not needed to be tried again.

    At least in this case Bob is experimenting with a FORMATION not with a ton of non-starters. If he needs to go back to the 4-4-2 it can be done easily without subing anyone out so this experiment is great in that it gives flexibility.


  16. Posted by Shane_K83 on 2010/05/29 at 10:57 AM

    would be cool to do the live chat thing during the game… hint hint


  17. Posted by Antonio H. on 2010/05/29 at 11:02 AM



  18. Posted by Hercules3076 on 2010/05/29 at 11:04 AM

    Who are the subs?


  19. Posted by matthewsf on 2010/05/29 at 11:06 AM

    Benny on the left, Landon on the right. Dempsey sitting as a forward in the 4-4-1-1.


  20. we could easily be 0:3 down at this stage.


  21. Turkey is QUICK. And Spector played that ball terribly and got burned.

    Hercules, looks like pretty much everyone is available on the bench.


  22. Posted by Doyle Redland on 2010/05/29 at 11:31 AM

    Altidore really needs to step it up. I’ve seen him pushed off of the ball a few times already


  23. We could use that Flying Hovestad about right now.


  24. Anyone think we may see Dolo second half? Spector is NOT looking sharp.


  25. Jozy’s gots mad skillz.


  26. Posted by kaya on 2010/05/29 at 11:51 AM

    Can you get H1N1 twice? Donovan had a wtf half.


    • That’s a bit strong innit?


    • Donovan gave up getting back and didn’t shut down that lane on Turkey last chance. I think is issue is he gets frustrated when we don’t control the ball and he also gets frustrated when he isn’t involved. But I don’t think he had that horrible of a half just needs to be in better position and press in to help get take away the time Turkeys mids have.


    • Posted by kaya on 2010/05/29 at 12:00 PM

      Really? Idk, I’ve seen atypically poor touches and passes he normally has no trouble with look amateur.


    • Posted by BW on 2010/05/29 at 12:04 PM

      yeah LD was non-existent on the right side. i’d like to see holden on for benny! (! for his early cross on Turkey’s behalf) and edu sub for “on-his-way-to-a-redcardo clark”.

      BTW – what the hell is wrong with dempsey? he’s been my favorite player since ’06 but his badass demeanor is coming off as a little bit more ‘ass’ than ‘bad’. (stepping out of line, taking his jacket off at the roster announcement, now taking his jersey off on the field at half….he seems to be too cool for school these days????)


      • Posted by kaya on 2010/05/29 at 5:22 PM

        Yeah, though in fairness, he was probably held back by Spector’s poor showing. Benny was doing a lot better until he got switched to the right side, too. I think one or two plays that led me down the “it must be H1N1” path were in fact plays made by Benny.
        I don’t think this is the first time we’ve seen Deuce’s body language be less than sportmanlike when playing for the US, but his expression during the game said as much, as well.


  27. Posted by Supporter on 2010/05/29 at 11:56 AM

    We cannot conclude too much about one half, but the omission of Ching looks to be obvious. Dempsey had a terrible first half and the US had trouble holding up the ball.


  28. Boca and Spector need to be better. They look hella rusty.


  29. Posted by john on 2010/05/29 at 11:58 AM

    Lets see some mo education please


  30. Emre, Altintop, Tuncay…those guys are mad dangerous.


  31. My thoughts are on Twitter. Click my name.


  32. Posted by matthewsf on 2010/05/29 at 12:00 PM

    Guys — I’ve been tweeting a bunch.

    Here are some halftime observations from the pressbox which provides a great look at the field.

    Goodson is calling the backline offsides line. A little more info that Gooch may not be your June 12th starter.

    The US came out in a 4-4-2, but Donovan has drifted up with Ricardo Clark for cover and Dempsey slotting back.

    Remember the forcing the ball to the right Tuesday…well it looks like the tactics were practice for today as well.

    Jay DeMerit has stood up two quality chances by the Turks. He is definitely your starter against Wayne Rooney.

    Spector has looked shaky since getting turned twice on the same play early.

    Mike Bradley is at a 5 rating right now…making some good plays, but more often missing a few tackles and spraying the ball all over the pitch.

    Really neat perspective from up here.

    The review will be great.


    • Posted by BW on 2010/05/29 at 12:08 PM

      yeah i recall two MB passes that were behind boca and out of bounds to Turkey. but he’s come back for defensive support on a few plays, so I’m sure that’s enough for him to remain MB90


  33. Posted by john on 2010/05/29 at 12:05 PM

    4 subs upcoming


  34. 1st Half thoughts:

    If Holden comes on for Benny we will be a much improved side. I don’t think Benny did horrible but he isn’t pressing effectively. Both Benny and Landycakes are not helping out the CMs and it is leading to long stretches of Turkey possession.

    I like how Deuce and Altidore are pressing. Bradley looks good though he is doing his roaming thing. Clark is doing ok but is really hesitant when he gets the ball. There are many times where his hesitance in decision slowed down our counter. I think Edu should come on at half and we will see a much improved side.

    Spector didn’t put himself in great positions. That missed judged header with the ball over his head was not good but Demerit/Goodson are the one to blame on not sliding over on the goal. Spector does need to distribute the ball quicker (i.e. not take it all the way to center himself). If he holds to the form a little bit better than he is ok.

    Boca was doing well. Good positioning but really hesitant to cross it. His one cross was good to Dempsey. I don’t mind this at all as he doesn’t have a commanding cross and he always was looking to dish it to the center. Only problem was most of the time it went to Clark who then pushed it back out to Boca.

    Dempsey has been trying to do too much. He is thinking of scoring constantly and needs to settle down the ball and sometimes distribute it too others. Doesn’t have to do it all himself. Also both he and Feilhaber took unwise leaning back shots. pass the ball.


  35. Posted by john on 2010/05/29 at 12:11 PM

    I still think that we are better. With Dempsey. At mid


  36. Posted by BW on 2010/05/29 at 12:11 PM

    i missed it – who are the subs?


  37. Only a timely block from a Turkish defender stopped Bradley from scoring a moment ago.


  38. Posted by john on 2010/05/29 at 12:12 PM

    Findley gooch cherundolo torres


  39. Posted by Michael on 2010/05/29 at 12:13 PM

    Yipes I wish we were playing better.

    Shaun, great comments as always. A few reactions:
    -Terrible tackling in central midfield — Tuncay and others can just waltz through whenever they want.
    -Dempsey not impressing as a forward, at least with his back to goal.
    -Feilhaber<Beasley<Holden. Though Feilhaber had a couple nice crosses in the final third, his middle third play is not as good as the others.
    -Spector does not look good, though the goal is on the whole back line, not just him, IMHO. Shaun, I couldn't agree more about Dolo starting on June 12.

    Can't wait to see who subs.


  40. Generally more cohesive and better from the US.


  41. Posted by john on 2010/05/29 at 12:15 PM

    Torres touch is o so nice


  42. GOLAZO!


  43. Posted by john on 2010/05/29 at 12:22 PM

    I I ove findley. This message will self destruct


  44. Posted by kaya on 2010/05/29 at 12:22 PM

    Holy shit. Robbie Findley, secret weapon!!
    Donovan totally heard my scathing commentary =)


  45. Man that ball from Findley was gorgeous.


  46. Posted by Michael on 2010/05/29 at 12:23 PM

    Wow. Findley playing himself into a starting spot? Found the touch and skill to go with the blazing speed. Love it.


  47. Posted by john on 2010/05/29 at 12:24 PM

    If the question is who isn t starting against england the answer is clark


    • Any reason? He was solid if not unspectacular in the first half, and while I love Torres as a player he’s probably not the defensive stopper we probably want v England.


      • Posted by john on 2010/05/29 at 12:33 PM

        Depends on how you want to see the organization. The us has looked quite a bit better moving dempsey back and putting torres in. I think that with the options shown that clark didn’t produce enough defence and offence.


        • I absolutely agree that Torres is better in the attack and I love seeing him out there, I just don’t know that we can give up having a destroyer in there v England.


        • Posted by john on 2010/05/29 at 12:35 PM

          Right I still think the starter is edu not torres.


        • Posted by kaya on 2010/05/29 at 12:58 PM

          If you want a guy to be sure and get a yellow, possibly a red, Edu is your guy.


        • Posted by kaya on 2010/05/29 at 12:59 PM

          whhops, totally meant Clark…


        • Posted by Kevin on 2010/05/29 at 1:26 PM

          I don’t have any problem against the card Clark got. He was the one that was put in the position of foul or possibly concede a goal. He wasn’t the last defender and he didn’t make it seem like it was on purpose. It’s a good tactical foul no matter how much you dislike it


        • Posted by kaya on 2010/05/29 at 5:24 PM

          If this were a case in isolation, I might take your point, but it’s not. Clark does silly things a lot. And in fact, his yellow card as a last ditch maneuver was neccessitated by… his awful touch and screw up in the first place.


  48. Nice run by Donovan…this keeps getting better.


  49. Posted by john on 2010/05/29 at 12:38 PM

    Everyone hold on to your hats… here comes bornstein


  50. Posted by john on 2010/05/29 at 12:39 PM



  51. Ohhhh Nooo Bornstein.
    I like that Boca is getting a rest but it is too bad Spector can’t be tried as he was already subbed out. This would have been the perfect chance to try him their. Anyways maybe Spector gets a late sub in the Australia game at LB?


  52. Bit of luck on that one Dempsey but we’ll take it!


  53. in that vein Eric, I thought that Cherundolo had RB locked up and that we’d likely see Spector starting on the left.


  54. Posted by Hercules3076 on 2010/05/29 at 12:41 PM

    Torres brought a spark. Findley brought some speed. Dempsey seemed better in midfield. Dolo>Spector.

    And here comes Bornstein…


    • Posted by Hercules3076 on 2010/05/29 at 12:42 PM

      And he has already had a moment…


    • Posted by anthony on 2010/05/29 at 1:29 PM

      I totally agree with everything you said: Torres is looking really good, Findley is settling in (just needs to score that first goal and he’ll have some more confidence, he’s got the speed), and Cherundolo should start over Spector at this point.


  55. Howard should come up for corners! Nice header


  56. Posted by john on 2010/05/29 at 12:42 PM

    Swiiiiiiiing and a miss bornstein


  57. Posted by Hercules3076 on 2010/05/29 at 12:45 PM

    So…Holden on for Jozy. 4-5-1? Or did someone move up?


  58. Posted by Antonio H. on 2010/05/29 at 12:46 PM

    Bob should’ve used that last sub to recall JB to the bench for Beas’


  59. Posted by john on 2010/05/29 at 12:52 PM

    Juuuuust a bit outside


  60. Cheeky attempt from Torres…love it:) nice ball from Holden before that to set up Bradley.


    • Posted by Kevin on 2010/05/29 at 1:30 PM

      Bradley should have taken the shot sooner. By the time he passed it that was his only option. Quicker decisions Bradley.


  61. Posted by Michael on 2010/05/29 at 12:56 PM

    Torres’s tackling is amazing! I had no idea. Is this normal for him or is he having the game of his life?

    Love this lineup (minus Bornstein, of course).


  62. Kaya, you keep scolding Donovan ok? : – )


  63. Posted by john on 2010/05/29 at 12:58 PM

    Tale of two halves. Yes usa


  64. I’m definitely warming to the idea of Torres being a bigger part of the US team.


  65. Posted by Hercules3076 on 2010/05/29 at 1:01 PM

    It was a good second half. Lets hope that Boca can stand up for all games at LB. Dolo took over the starting spot at RB. Goodson was a decent replacement for Gooch if needed, but Gooch looked good. Findley made the defense more aware of speed, but I don’t know if he is quite the starter yet. I don’t think that Dempsey up top worked, though he did say that he was a little rusty at first. And JFT for MOTM!


    • Posted by Michael on 2010/05/29 at 1:07 PM

      Bocanegra’s abs is to USA as Rooney’s groin/ankle is to England.


      • Posted by Hercules3076 on 2010/05/29 at 1:19 PM

        Sadly, I think those abs are more important. England can do damage without Rooney, the US will get damaged without Boca.


  66. Posted by Shane_K83 on 2010/05/29 at 1:14 PM



  67. Starting XI?





    With this game I think we saw a few things:
    1) The Dempsey pairing up top should still be tried at times but since it didn’t gel this game I don’t think we can use it as a starting formation. Not enough time to get it right. (though it wasn’t given the best look as Torres, Holden, etc. weren’t in)

    2) If there is to be a striker along side Altidore is this BB’s current order? Findley > Gomez > Buddle. I think Findley looked more confident but he still didn’t ditribute the ball well when he had it. He was bailed out by Turkey defenders knocking it out. So this is the biggest question mark does Findley or Gomez have better possession skills on the ball. Personally I would go with Gomez.

    3) What has been mentioned above about the in game results leads me to believe at this point that the depth chart in each position looks something like:

    Goal: Howard, Hahnemann, Guzan
    LB: Boca, JB, Spector ***this is BB’s order not mine
    CM: Demerit, Gooch, Goodson, Boca
    RB: Dolo, Spector

    LM: Dempsey, Donovan, DMB
    CDM: Bradley, Edu, Clark (I might start Edu over Bradley but that isn’t going to happen)
    CAM: Torres, Holden, Feilhaber (MB if Edu is in and Torres isn’t, will be here if need defense late)
    RM: Donovan, Dempsey, Holden

    Holding Striker: Altidore, Buddle
    Speedster: Gomez, Findley

    Good game. I can’t wait a whole long week


    • 3 parting thoughts:

      1) Demerit looked much more comfortable with Gooch in than with Goodson. On multiple occasions with a Turkey player streaking in Demerit and Goodson didn’t know who should step up to pressure him. Howard got livid on those occasions

      2) Even though I would like to see what a Edu/Torres combo would look like with the full starters I know that a) BB will not start someone other than MB if he is healthy. b) I can not completely fault that decision because MB is very good, I just think Edu in the CDM role might be slightly better. Also maybe Torres and MB have slightly more experience playing next to each other though I think that is almost a mute point.

      3) ESPN IF YOU ARE READING THIS…..please have someone teach your camera crew what is important in each situation in the game of football/soccer. If I have to think one more time at each corner kick that I am going to miss the ball coming in so that I can see a prolonged close-up shot of Gooch/Bocanegra/Spector I am going to scream. I understand that this game is different than most American sports in that there are not abundant stops for time to switch to lots of various angles. I get that everyone involved in the audiovisual operations are very good at what they do (too good really), but from a fan of soccer’s perspective it is really irritating


      • Posted by BW on 2010/05/29 at 7:25 PM

        seriously – I find myself shouting “show the match” at least 3 times a game when play goes on, crowd noise increases, and I’m still staring at Bob Bradley’s emotionless face.


  68. Posted by Shane_K83 on 2010/05/29 at 1:26 PM

    Torres has earned a start after two good games.. imo


    • Posted by anthony on 2010/05/29 at 1:37 PM

      He was looking really good, and made a big difference for the 2nd half.


    • Posted by Tom on 2010/05/29 at 11:10 PM

      Have to agree. Never really saw much in his game before today, but the little guy looked tiiiight on the ball through the whole half. He has the closest I’ve seen to an American making the opponent ole in a long time. Keep it up Jose!


  69. Posted by Antonio H. on 2010/05/29 at 1:29 PM

    The best part about this match is that noww none of our group opponents know what to expect. I’m willing to Start Donovan on the right with Dolo as long as Robbie starts on the left ahead of dempsey and Boca. The guy can really stretch the field.

    Where’s George?


    • Posted by Kevin on 2010/05/29 at 1:37 PM

      Antonio – I wouldn’t go so far as to say our group opponents don’t know what to expect… I don’t think many US fans know what to expect. I think the Australia friendly should be able to shore that up though.


    • Posted by anthony on 2010/05/29 at 1:39 PM

      I agree. I have to say Dolo, Torres, and Findley made a huge difference. I’m really starting to dig Torres.


  70. Posted by John on 2010/05/29 at 1:32 PM

    I still like to go back to the fact that Dempsey is better and sneakier in Mid than up top (even playing behind the striker). It didn’t quite pan out for Fullham and it doesn’t quite pan out for the US. His talents for playing in the ball and following up behind the play are higher than those up front, and if Findley, Gomez or Buddle can make an impact at all I think that Dempsey stays back in the Mids.


    • Posted by Hercules3076 on 2010/05/29 at 1:39 PM

      Sad to see that neither Gomez or Buddle made it onto the pitch today.

      Looks like Holden has passed DMB, but we’ll see.

      One Friendly left. I want to see Edu-Bradley, as that might be the starting duo for England, but Torres has been a star these last two games. The star from this WC?

      As much as Benny is loved, I don’t think he is ready as a starter. He always seemed better as a sub. But with Torres shining now, he might have lost the midfield super sub role.

      I think the Forward super sub role is going to be between Gomez and Findley. I don’t really see either as starters, but hey, I’ve been massively wrong in this past week.

      When is the Australian Friendly? I can’t wait.


    • Posted by BW on 2010/05/29 at 1:47 PM

      yeah I think dempsey starts at LM, with one of the 3 new forwards up top with Jozy. Then, holden comes on as sub for one of the new guys, pushing dempsey up top (holden goes RM- Donovan goes to the LM)

      I think Torres/Edu take turns pairing with MB90 depending on if we need offensive or defensive help.

      Dolo over Spector from here on out. Gooch/Goodson depending on the knee.

      Dolo, Demerit, Gooch/Goodson, Boca
      Donovan, Bradley, Edu/Torres, Dempsey
      Jozy, New Guys(sub out 70 min for Holden)


      • That’s what I would go with and I wrote above.

        My only question would be should Gomez, etc. play above Donovan or Dempsey. We usually have that player above Donovan which would be on the right. I think that might be best with Altidore on the left above Dempsey. And maybe license for Gomez etc. to really be halfway withdrawn at times an cut across the field on runs.


      • Posted by Kevin on 2010/05/29 at 2:00 PM

        I’ve always wondered why Bradley never gave Holden a shot in the middle with junior.


  71. Posted by kaya on 2010/05/29 at 1:37 PM

    I know Torres had a poor defensive match in qualifying, but him and Benny always taking a backseat to junior and Clark has always driven me nuts. Torres’ touch is not a revelation. It’s just a team philosophy to value “destroyer” over any sense of control/decent touches/passing.
    There’s no point in beating the Bradley spot to death since it’s been clear from the beginning… but the entire team gets built around it. Harkes was going on about junior’s supposedly great tackling when in fact it was only neccessary because of his unneccessary turnovers. When Bradley gets a straight chance at goal, he passes it. Unselfish… no. He just doesn’t have what it takes to make a goal that’s not either a scrap heap or from 30 yards out.
    Go USA =)


    • Posted by Hercules3076 on 2010/05/29 at 1:41 PM

      If he had taken a shot, and missed on the tough/sharp angle, we would have all been yelling at him to pass it.


      • Posted by kaya on 2010/05/29 at 1:43 PM

        absolutely not. those are chances you should take. granted that in bradley’s case, i know the result would be predictable.


        • Posted by GeorgeCross on 2010/05/29 at 4:55 PM

          With the first one that was blocked, the defender went to ground *very* early. Even I have the composure to skip around and create half a yard to have a clean shot on goal.

          With the 2nd one, I was surprised he didn”t pull the trigger and nobody would have said he was being selfish. But if Dempsey scored, people would have said “great vision to pick out a team mate”…


      • Posted by Kevin on 2010/05/29 at 1:45 PM

        I think he could have taken it. By the time he got around to passing it, it was too late to take the shot, so my biggest problem with it was that with that second he had with the ball he should have thought less and acted on instinct. Rip it hard and low.


        • Posted by Hercules3076 on 2010/05/29 at 2:04 PM

          Ok, I think that is best theory, he hesitated. Maybe he didn’t have full control? Dempsey sure was surprised by it I think.


    • Posted by Kevin on 2010/05/29 at 1:42 PM

      “Harkes was going on about junior’s supposedly great tackling when in fact it was only neccessary because of his unneccessary turnovers.”

      Thank you… I’m not the only one who thinks like that. Are the any comments in the Bill Jeffrey comment HOF wing yet?


    • Posted by Dylan on 2010/05/29 at 4:13 PM

      I’ve gotta disagree with you, Bradley has a pretty decent shot, and even if he didn’t he made a great run and was in a golden opportunity, what he did wrong was try to much Donovan on that one, he for sure should have taken the shot. He wanted that perfect set up, but when it comes down to you take the chances presented to you. Donovan is the only one I want to see playing quaterback when he has shooting opportunities. Bradley can make that shot and if not he was close enough that if its on target there will be a rebound.


      • Posted by kaya on 2010/05/29 at 5:57 PM

        Bradley has a strong thumping shot from outside, but he’s not a technical player. He would’ve shot that straight at the keeper. The Bradley/Clark combo is the one I’ve seen the most often and it mystifies me why it never seems to have occurred to our technicians that we could also “provide cover” to anunderwhelming backline by maintaining possession rather doubling down with 2 “destroyer” types. I’m very uncomfortable with revelations still coming with 2 weeks to go.


  72. Posted by Hercules3076 on 2010/05/29 at 1:44 PM

    Did anyone else watch the post-match interview with Dempsey? Am I reading too far into it by thinking that Findley is not fully integrated into the team yet? Demps referred to a few other players by their first names, but then kept saying “Findley”. Is that what he prefers to be called?

    Also, the post-Dempsey goal handshake between Dempsey and Torres looked like a great sign of cohesiveness.

    Maybe I’m over-analyzing, I’m still recovering from Lost.


    • Posted by Kevin on 2010/05/29 at 1:47 PM

      I don’t know I’d prefer Findley over Robbie… wait there’s no robbie’s in here are there? It could also be because Robbie Rogers has been in the system longer they call him Robbie and to tell the difference on the field, they say Findley.


    • Posted by anthony on 2010/05/29 at 1:53 PM

      I can’t believe you brought up Lost, I’m trying to move on with my life! No more Jack Shepherd and John Locke, give me Landon Donovan (man of science) and Clint Dempsey (man of faith)!

      Fabio Capello=Charles Widmore


      • Posted by John on 2010/05/29 at 1:54 PM

        Hurley = Bornstein?

        Ultimately cursed but fun loving?


        • Posted by Hercules3076 on 2010/05/29 at 2:02 PM

          Oh, I’m sorry I brought it up. Arrg. Lost characters as a starting 11 anyone?


        • Posted by John on 2010/05/29 at 2:22 PM

          Landon Donovan – Jack Shepherd
          Clint Dempsey – Sawyer
          Oguchi Onyewu – Lock (because he can walk again but not well and he is a man of faith)
          Jonathon Bornstein – Hurley
          Robbie Findley – Benjamin Linus (because no one knows what he is going to do)
          Bob Bradley – Kate Austin (he seems to fall in love with someone very quickly even if their isn’t a good reason)
          Jose Torres – Miles (underutilized but interesting, and we will see more as the series goes on)
          Connor Casey – Mikel (dead)
          Bocanegra – Richard Alpert
          Jay Demerit – Frank Lapidus (Supporting cast that is important and without him the plane crashes)
          Cherundolo – Jin (supporting cast that is important but without him we end up underwater)
          Micheal Bradley – Charles Widmore (Is he good? Bad? Evil? Awesome?)
          Jonathon Spector – Charlie (people like him, seems like a nice guy, also has some tragic endings)
          Edu – Mr Eko – (DESTROYER)
          Jozy Altidore – Sayid (sometimes he tortures us but frequently and recently he is good and when he is, he kills people on the defense)
          Holden – Boon (adds something but behind a bunch of solid cast members)
          Ricardo Clark – Matthew Abaddon (seems to come in without prior notification, mystifies people as to his intent and ends up leaving without a full explanation)
          Herculez Gomez – Desmond (came from nowhere to become a starting cast member, might end up influencing things more than we realize but we won’t know till the end)
          Edson Buddle – Grown Up Walt (Does anyone know where he comes from? Doesn’t he look older than he should be? Didn’t he seem to have quite a bit of promise a long time ago? It would be late in the season for his inclusion except that he is scoring alot?)
          Alexi Lalas – Jacob (seems to know more than he is letting on, but often speaks in riddles and doesn’t make sense)


        • Posted by John on 2010/05/29 at 2:49 PM

          I almost forgot

          Tim Howard – Smoke Monster (he is everywhere, swallows up people, infrequently makes mistakes, and when he gets angry he GETS AAAAAAAAAAANGRY!)

          Marcus Hanneham and Brad Guzan – Bernard and Rose (Noone knows who comes first in their relationship, but they are together on the same island)


        • John deserves a TSG HOF nominee for his Lost comments above:

          especially for these gems….

          “Bob Bradley – Kate Austin (he seems to fall in love with someone very quickly even if their isn’t a good reason)”

          Alexi Lalas – Jacob (seems to know more than he is letting on, but often speaks in riddles and doesn’t make sense)

          Connor Casey – Mikel (dead)


        • Also love:
          “Bornstein = Hurley
          Ultimately cursed but fun loving”


        • Posted by anthony on 2010/05/29 at 8:53 PM

          Nice work John!


        • Posted by Hercules3076 on 2010/05/29 at 9:33 PM

          I created a monster (pun INtended) didn’t I?


  73. Posted by dude on 2010/05/29 at 1:45 PM

    Arguments I won today:

    1) Clark vs. Torres. If this were a cock fight, my boy Torres would have his own article in Sports Illustrated.
    2) Bedoya’s exculsion when Feilhaber isn’t in form: I feel my comments were thoroughly vindicated.

    Arguments I lost.
    1) Spector over Cherundolo. Dolo is better than ever, Spector is far worse.
    2) The Findley I’ve seen play since the olympics vs. Findley in the second half against Turkey.
    WTF. Where did he get that chip from?

    Overall, that was the best half of soccer we’ve played since the first half against Brazil in the confed cup.


    • Posted by KMac on 2010/05/29 at 3:19 PM

      True that dude.


    • Posted by cfig on 2010/05/29 at 7:39 PM

      Agreed on Torres v Clark except that I don’t really compare the two, they’re very different sorts of players. And very agreed on Benny, shouldve been Holden out there.


  74. Posted by anthony on 2010/05/29 at 1:48 PM

    I think Dempsey’s comments were dead-on, the U.S. was too slow moving the ball in the first half, plus they gave the Turks too much space. With an injection of Findley and Torres with help from Cherundolo, you could see they were pushing up more and creating chances.


  75. Posted by Kevin on 2010/05/29 at 1:55 PM

    I think…

    Torres clearly SHOULD get the starting job. People talk too much about the destroyer role, I myself have nothing against it, but I have consistently argued that we don’t need two.
    Benny didn’t look like his normal self, but it could be the fact that he was on the left.
    Dolo is better on the right.
    Boca starts on the left
    GOODSON starts… not Gooch
    Dempsey stays in midfield.
    Holden starts
    And hopefully not regretfully, Findley starts


    • Posted by John on 2010/05/29 at 1:57 PM

      You want Donovan, Torres, Dempsey, Holden?

      Or are you saying move up Donovan and start Dempsey out left and then Torres Edu Holden?


      • Posted by Kevin on 2010/05/29 at 2:02 PM

        I may have miscounted my midfielders…


      • Posted by Kevin on 2010/05/29 at 2:05 PM

        If Torres and Holden started I would go with, Dempsey/Donovan uptop with Bradley not Edu in center. Based on last night I wouldn’t mind trying to start Lando uptop.


    • Are Donovan and Holden both starting with Dempsey on the bench then?


    • Posted by Kevin on 2010/05/29 at 2:07 PM

      Donovan could work well as the speed man up top slightly withdrawn. more like ESPN displayed Dempsey’s position in the Pregame


      • Posted by Kevin on 2010/05/29 at 2:09 PM

        Another thought… why not Torres AND Holden in the Middle with Deuce and Donovan manning the wings?


        • Posted by anthony on 2010/05/29 at 2:16 PM

          Edu over Clark for sure, and Torres has to come in at some point, he made a huge difference. I don’t understand why Bradley is so obstinate about playing his son and not experimenting a bit with maybe Torres and Edu in center and Donovan and Holden on the wings, with Dempsey up-top . Or Holden and Dempsey on the wings (Holden can play both sides) with Donovan up-top……..


        • Posted by Robby on 2010/05/29 at 3:10 PM

          Because Bradley played a near perfect game in the middle? Is nobody else seeing this?


        • Posted by Kevin on 2010/05/31 at 5:15 PM

          Personally, I wouldn’t leave Bradley off the starting spot because he’s our best DM. about a year ago I couldn’t stand him, but he’s played well, as of late, and against better competition. The only reason he doesn’t start would be (besides red card) we’re not going to use a DM. BB is still a bit biased towards his son.

          My pecking order for DM is Bradley>Clark>Edu I may be a little biased since I’m a houston fan, but Clark covers A LOT of ground. I also think this is Bradley’s pecking order, so that’s why I refer to Clark.


  76. Posted by anthony on 2010/05/29 at 2:08 PM

    One thing is deathly apparent: for all the defensive struggles we have with injuries and fitness problems:

    The U.S. needs to play a more offensive game in the WC than the Confederations Cup, keeping the ball moving and pushing forward (the best defense is a good offense right?) putting pressure on teams like England, NOT GIVING THEM TOO MUCH RESPECT OR SPACE.

    We have to play offensively, we can’t play a defensive game, the back line is just not there yet in terms of coordination. And Spector has lost my vote, Cherundulo is the man.


  77. Posted by GeorgeCross on 2010/05/29 at 5:07 PM

    Spector was absolutely awful. Turkey had 2 or 3 really good chances because of his poor positioning – before they scored. Turkey seemed to get behind Spector far too easily. Obviously it’s a friendly, but that has to be a massive take-away for Bradley from this game.

    The US seemed to really struggle in the 1st half, and nobody got tight on Tuncay. Everybody seemed to be ball watching and let Turkey zip the ball around. You cannot stand off like that. You didn’t do this in the 2nd half, and although Turkey play OK, they created a lot less.

    What did you think about Howard’s rush of blood when he came far out of his area and didn’t win the ball (for the offside)? I know it’s a moot point because it was offside, but Howard didn’t know that when he made his decision to leave the box.

    I liked Torres’ display and the fact that he always made himself available for the ball, especially from the defence. He looked very comfortable, but he needs to know when to do the tricks and flicks and when not to.


    • Posted by Dylan on 2010/05/29 at 5:54 PM

      I’ve learned to live with Howards decisions on coming out of the box. He is athletic enough to make the play more often then not. Like when he came out on another offside play and pulled the ball right from the Turk attackers feet. That was one of the best plays of the game, Timmy is not something i’m worried about.

      Things that worried me: Bornstien is lost on the international stage, I pray the only minutes he sees are in game three when we are already through. Also Clark does not have what it takes to control action in the midfield, he is a capable backup but Edu plays that role better. Clark should have been back on the Turk goal, because Spector and Goodson were both in a forward position, as a def. mid, you have to recognize that and stay back for cover.

      Things that made me feel fuzzy: Torres played great and was very calm in possession. Findley really impressed me tonight and connected well with the midfield. Gooch looked a lot better I’m starting to believe that he will be ready and our backline will be a stout one with plenty of attack from the wings.


  78. Posted by dikranovich on 2010/05/29 at 5:11 PM

    the 3-5-2 sure looks a lot more plausable after todays game, thats all im saying. give us a healthy gooch and a little bit better demerit and boca looked solid today. that is three defenders that can make this formation happen.


  79. Posted by Scott B on 2010/05/29 at 5:34 PM

    I thought Junior Sweatpants played terrible defense today. His marking was way off and he over commits way to often on challenges.


  80. Rewatching the Telly coverage and Alexei Lalas is an idiot! Bring on the flat flat 4-4-2!


  81. Okay, so the US team that showed up in half 2 was the same one that can beat anyone. This team is a lot better than these results suggest and a lot better than anyone in England thinks and that’s a good thing.


    • Posted by sfshwebb on 2010/05/29 at 9:14 PM

      Tuesday – No doubt the US played MUCH better in the second half but a lot of their first half defensive mistakes were still quite prominent. There were several very open shots as well as some crosses where all the US defenders were committed and beaten and the ball trickled across the face of goal. Luckily no Turkish players were there to slot it home. For as good as they were in the second half they were equally as bad in the first.

      They certainly showed more attacking intent and the first was a very nice team goal but they REALLY need to shore up those holes that Turkey easily exploited.

      I also wouldn’t be so sure that no one realizes what the US can do. Their display last year showed they can play well and Capello for one is not going to just laugh of any of his opponents. Every team that the US meets will be incredibly well prepared to meet them. It comes down to whether or not each and every player is up for the game and how mistake free they play.


      • Posted by GeorgeCross on 2010/05/30 at 5:27 AM

        Shaun – just like the England win, this victory papers over the cracks. And the intelligent fans know this. But at the end of the day, it’s a warm up game, so best make the mistakes now so you go back to the training ground to iron them out, so you do not make them at the World Cup. Same for all finalists.


  82. Posted by Bob on 2010/05/30 at 4:18 AM

    I have must have been sitting near Tuesday as I was in Egypt behind the goal where all the goals were scored. Bc of this, I brought my binocs and watch a lot of the game using them (btw the stadium is great and I did not need them but it was interesting to do so). Here is what I saw thru the binocs that I may not have seen otherwise:

    1. Torres has AMAZING ball control! He looked like Ronaldinho Jr. out there. It was really fun to watch him thru the binocs and he played with extreme confidence.
    2. I have said this b4 but it is more obvious live: Findley is VERY quick and causes all kinds of problems for a backline. They seemed to panic at spots when he started to make his runs. His little chip shots in the box were spot on and I have no problem with him starting against England. Yes, I said it. And I definitely have to give props to BB for making a coaches decision on him.
    3. DeMerit and Gooch looked good together. Howard does not like playing with JBo as I saw thru the binocs that JBo pointed to himself and made the calm down sign to him several times.
    4. The fans did not appreciate Spector and when it was announced he was being subbed a huge cheer went up. Interesting, but when Findley’s name was announced, Silence. Bet that won’t happen again.
    5.Spector and Goodson looked slow a lot and Dolo seemed to really have command when he came on.

    It was my first USMNT game live and I did not want it to end. A great experience with a great crowd. I am now addicted lol!


  83. Posted by Smitty on 2010/05/30 at 8:12 AM

    How bout some credit to Coach Sweatpants? I like that he was willing to experiment in the first half, and all his decisions in the 2nd half paid dividends. That was a quality Turkish side, and they were rendered impotent in the final 45.


    • Posted by GeorgeCross on 2010/05/30 at 8:17 AM

      With the chances they had, it should have been game over at HT. They hardly busted a gut in the 2nd half to defend their lead, did they? But credit must be given to the introduction of Torres and Findlay.


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